The revamped market place, formerly known as Newgate Market (though everyone I know just called it ‘the market’) recently renamed ‘Shambles market’ (we’ll probably still just call it ‘the market’). Refurbishment work previously discussed has continued after a break over the Christmas period.

A document on the council’s website refers to ‘significant improvements’. I’ve been along to have another look. The photos on this page were taken on 9 March.

There’s more of the new paving — which, as previously mentioned, might have formed the groundwork for a nice public square — but it now has the market stalls back on top of it. Like all over ‘improvement’ and ‘reinvigoration’ schemes it has cost a lot of money.

The most interesting thing about the refurbished market is perhaps the new document of ‘Market Regulations’, and in particular this bit, which I found a bit surprising:

Market traders pay to have stalls on the market. They’re independent traders, not employees of the council. I would have thought that means they have the right to say what they like. Apparently not? Even in their own time, online, they have to ‘uphold the good reputation of the market’.

I would write more but as I’m just an outsider observing I should perhaps keep my concerns to myself.

The full document is on the council’s website on this link (PDF). It was discussed at a meeting on 10 March which I didn’t have time to watch, and I haven’t read whether this point was discussed and challenged or if traders really are now expected to sign an agreement with that clause in it. Comments welcome from anyone who has more information. Meanwhile, some more photos follow, taken on 9 March.

The view of the same area when cleared of stalls last year was included on an earlier page.

The view above — see this page for a comparison view from last year.

See also: earlier photos and thoughts on the market and its refurbishment.

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‘Some of the paving is cracked already’ is one of the complaints about the new ‘Shambles Market‘. I thought I’d wade into this (being careful not to trip).

Do we mean here? The paving to the right of this photo, by the lorry, is, as far as I can see, the same paving as it was before the work started. That is, old, not new. Earlier photos show there were already a few cracked slabs. This photo shows that there are more cracked slabs. This is perhaps because this area, being older paving, has been used to park on/dump heavy stuff on. Maybe someone nearer who saw the work on a daily basis can confirm. Perhaps the plan was to replace these last. But everything’s taken longer than expected. Doesn’t it always.

Next to the cracked old bit, in this photo taken earlier this month, there are some new slabs, then there’s some temporary tarmac patching, then some more new paving. In front of it are the stone setts, also I think there before and not replaced.

I had a wander through yesterday, and admittedly it was dusk by then, and I didn’t crawl about on my hands and knees under the market stalls, but these cracked slabs were the only cracked slabs I could see. If you know otherwise, please add a comment.

Elsewhere, particularly along the new and rather wider ‘avenue’ between the run of stalls, the paving is really very nice. Looks to be the same stone slabs used in King’s Square.

The paving appears to be another successful mix of old and new, as we saw at the edge of the King’s Square work, where they ended up leaving more of the old cart tracks and setts than it appeared they intended to originally. Here in the market area, and assuming that they’re not going to rip it all up later, it seems that they’ve decided to keep a lot of the old setts on the ‘road’ parts. Which makes complete sense, and shows evidence of listening to public concerns. Isn’t that nice.

As illustrated here, more clearly.  A section of new paving right at the edge of the reinvigoration zone, on Newgate itself. It’s the area following on from the photo at the top of the page, to the left of that. There’s a section of the new slabs, neatly joining those old cart tracks and setts we demonstrated concerns about in King’s Square. They daren’t touch the cart tracks and setts in case Michelle hears about it.

So, isn’t that good.

Wet leaves, smooth paving, slippy shoe issues

While we’re on the subject of paving, let’s have a wander into nearby King’s Square.

Have a seat here on Paul Woosey’s bench, and please listen carefully as I provide a Public Safety Announcement.

One morning a couple of weeks back I went to sit in King’s Square to do some traffic-watching (more on that story later) and people watching and general city centre sunny morning appreciating, on my way to buy some veg from the market. And took a few photos, like that one. You’re probably looking at the nice blue sky, the Minster, maybe the man in his nice hat in the centre, maybe that big green van. Maybe that massive great clunking box on a trike thing Chocolate Story are still plonking by the tree in the square even though so many people think they shouldn’t.

Can I draw your attention instead to the smooth new paving to the right, which as you can see is wet in parts. There are also a few fallen leaves.

If you ever see this combination of things, slow down and tread carefully. Avoid the leaves, avoid the area entirely if you can.

When the old/new paving in this square was being hotly debated last year I said I couldn’t really see how all the alleged falling over on paving was occurring. Some said the old paving was a hazard. When the new paving went in other people said that would be a hazard. I couldn’t really see any of these hazards, until this particular morning when a woman fell over in the square right in front of me.

I’d been thinking what a lovely city scene it all was, when the woman, walking across that bit of the square perfectly normally was suddenly lying on the floor. Only briefly, thankfully. She got up pretty sharpish. People nearby gathered round and checked she was okay.

She wasn’t frail and elderly, she was probably in her fifties. She’d been striding along confidently when, I assume, she’d trodden on a wet leaf on that smooth natural stone. Because she slid, rather than tripping. Quite unlucky, as there were only a few leaves about for her to slip on.

I thought about mentioning it on Twitter at the time, but then in the current mood, and with so many people so annoyed at the King’s Square changes, I wasn’t sure I could cope with it if it all kicked off into ‘I told you so’ paving-related debate.

I’m mentioning it now because it’s that time of the year when there are a lot of leaves about, and because it made me think about ‘hazards’ in the urban environment, and whose fault it is if we fall. We could blame the trees, couldn’t we. Being messy, that thing they do of dropping their leaves. We could blame the council for not sweeping all the areas near trees twice daily in the autumn. We could blame the council for putting down that classy but clearly extremely smooth paving rather than more practical rugged tarmac or concrete or something.

The other factor, of course, is shoes. As I know from a slight slidey-not-quite-falling-over-but-looking-a-bit-silly incident on Bootham, with a similar combination of wet leaves on natural stone (old stone in this case, just pointing that out, it isn’t just new and expensive King’s Square paving where this occurs). I was wearing not my usual rugged-treaded footwear but something more like a traditional women’s winter boot. With not much of a tread. I expect there are more slipping incidents involving women, because of women’s more generally dainty and smooth-soled shoes.

So, ladies in particular, watch your step. We don’t want any more people falling in King’s Square or indeed anywhere, or we might end up blaming the trees and chopping even more of them down than we do already. More on that story later.

After that rest on Paul Woosey’s bench, time to wander off to something exciting nearby. Mind those leaves.

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Over the summer and into the autumn we’ve had a fine view of the backs of these buildings, the back of the Shambles, normally partly obscured by market stalls.

In July I took some photos from the other end of the marketplace, looking towards this end, showing the new views opening up across the area as it was cleared of stalls ready for the refurbishment. Over the summer into the autumn I often walked past and thought how handsome it looked, this space. I’ve often thought that the backs of the Shambles buildings were in many ways more interesting than the much-photographed views down the street from the front.

Other people have been admiring too, and I imagine many residents and visitors have taken photos similar to that photo above.

A wider view, taking in more of the market area:

Here’s another view, taken the same day in early September, from the corner of Jubbergate towards another part of the back of the Shambles buildings, across the marketplace cleared of stalls:

I found this a very pleasing view, if we disregard the construction work clutter. What a great public square this would be, I thought. How nice to emerge from the stubby bit of Jubbergate and see that beautiful collection of buildings glowing in the afternoon sun.

It wasn’t like that for long. The new market stalls began to fill the space. Here’s the same view in late October.

That’s a shame, I thought.

Of course while all this was going on the market stalls usually occupying this space were on Parliament Street for several months. Where they used to be, on a permanent basis, before the market moved in 1964. I don’t have a photo of the stalls here recently, but I do have a couple of photos of Parliament St in its ’empty’ state, taken one evening in June last year.

Not exactly gorgeous, is it. Modern shopfronts surrounding a jumble of modern paving with a sad-looking non-working fountain in the middle.

This large but not particularly beautiful space is clearly the best place for markets. And of course it’s used for that, in the ordinary course of things, for parts of the year, for the visiting markets. Such as the Christmas one, St Nicholas Fair. Which is almost upon us, and that’s why the market traders of our regular market are now back in the ‘reinvigorated’ Newgate. This has been renamed Shambles Market.

As announced on Twitter earlier this week:

Don’t forget, #york market moves out of Parliament Street and back where it belongs in refurbished Newgate area tomorrow… #shamblesmarket

— Shambles Market (@Shambles_Market) November 9, 2014

‘Back where it belongs’ wasn’t necessary, isn’t true (is a matter of opinion) and is just one of many announcements and publicity releases using other highly debatable phrases like ‘its traditional home’ – so transparently trying to ram home the point, as if saying these things often enough will make it true, make us believe it. Similarly rather desperate-looking, the signs around the building work recently:

‘Your market’s coming back here for Christmas!’

Desperate in the face of the bloomin obvious, which is that returning the daily market to its original/traditional home on Parliament Street for the last few months proved what we all knew already, that’s where it ‘belongs’. Or rather, as I don’t like to claim to speak for everyone, and none of us ever should, it looked to me, personally, and to many others, totally and completely obvious that having the market in Parliament Street on a daily basis like it used to be made absolute sense in all possible ways from all possible angles and that it should stay there all the time.

Why?

Well, because of the nature of the two places.

Parliament Street was created as a marketplace in the 19th century. We’ve messed about with it and used it as a car park and more recently for cycle racks and stuck a toilet block in it (demolished) and a fountain in it (not working) and for some reason planted massive great trees in it, but even after all the stupid clutter we’ve crammed into it we can still see that it’s the best market place. Because it’s wide and long and right in the middle of the main shopping area. It’s really not an attractive street and best covered with market stalls. Preferably permanently.

Whereas the area we used to call Newgate Market has some very picturesque views which we’ve now seen revealed after the market stalls were removed.

Parliament St has never been picturesque and never will be. It was created for a particular purpose. Our 19th century ancestors, in their confident and rather brutal way, cleared a massive space through the medieval streets, creating a huge wide space unlike any other street in the city centre, specifically for the market. It’s worked well as that ever since. Which is why the visiting markets always get to occupy it.

1852 plan, york1852.org

We’re messing around with a relatively small area round the corner, fiddling with it trying to make it work as well as Parliament Street did. But it never will, because it’s hidden away, because it’s a square not a long wide space.

If the Newgate site housed the visiting (temporary) markets then perhaps the rest of the time (which is most of the time) we could admire and use what would be an excellent open area, a proper city square, with interesting views of a pleasing jumble of buildings. With temporary stalls for the visiting markets filling the space when required. Maybe, if there’s not enough space, they could spill down Jubbergate and onto Parliament Street but still leave half the street for ‘our market’.

But no. The daily market has been sent back to a ‘reinvigorated’ Newgate, which means permanent stalls bolted back in to that handsome open space, and a £1.6 million ‘investment’.

Not much of this massive investment is visible at present, because the site isn’t properly finished. The Christmas market needing to use Parliament Street means the regular market has to move back into Newgate/Shambles market now, even though they’ll have to move out again, apparently, after Christmas, so the work can be properly completed.

In early November the rush was on to get the place to a certain standard. At least they had rapid-setting grout. But still had to work at least one Sunday. I wonder how much that cost us.

I’ve not been since the traders moved back in this week but it’s a bit scruffy by all accounts, with bits of tarmac patching, as happened in King’s Square. And as in King’s Square when that was newly done, photos I’ve seen online show drifts of gritty mucky mess being trampled all over, residue from the construction work. A bit of a ‘building site’ feel to it, apparently.

How many of us care anyway?

There was a consultation, which available documents suggest garnered only 42 responses. Yes, 42. That can’t be right, can it? But the document available on the council’s website suggests so:

Seems very few of us bothered to comment. Perhaps because it avoided the main question: ‘Would you rather the regular market was here on Newgate or permanently on Parliament Street.’

Much more could be said. There’s a bigger issue here than whether market stalls are a permanent fixture on one area of paving or another. Actually there are several bigger issues. And several smaller ones. Like cracked paving. More later perhaps.

For now, this looks like an example of the council ignoring the needs and wants of residents, ignoring concerns and commonsense and pressing on regardless with wasting an awful lot of money on something that isn’t going to work. Reminds me of … well, it reminds me of the Lendal Bridge thing. But I guess because the only people who are going to lose out financially here are the market traders there won’t be the same sense of widespread outrage.

Your views?

More

On this site: a photo of the market in Parliament Street in the 60s, presumably just before it moved, photos from 1964 of stalls and customers on the new Newgate Market, an earlier page on the Newgate plans, and another page from a while back, my idea for Parliament Street, involving a mountain/fountain of fruit and veg …

York Mix have covered the market’s reopening and earlier included one of the artist’s impressions of how the new market would look.

The Press has had many stories on the market changes

And everyone should listen to Cllr Sonja Crisp, interviewed on BBC Radio York by Nick Morris. About 2 hrs 16 mins into this programme. Move that slider and have a listen. Or perhaps not, if you’re already in a bad mood.

The post A tale of two marketplaces appeared first on York Stories.

Newgate Market in 1964. Photo by John Chrzanowski.

1964 was the year the market moved to Newgate, from Parliament St (so I’m told, it’s a bit before my time). And in its fiftieth year it’s undergoing a major transformation. Or ‘reinvigoration’ as we seem to call transformations now.

It would be interesting to know what these customers were saying about the new location, and what letters to the local paper said about it at the time.

Letters to the paper now, and online comments elsewhere, suggest that many people think it should never have moved here and should be back in Parliament Street, its earlier home. Though not of course its home from ‘ancient times’, as Parliament Street was a 19th century construction, cutting a wide new street through the earlier layout of narrow streets.

It was obviously the intention when Parliament Street was created to put the market in a highly visible central location, and it still works well for that, as it’s a busy thoroughfare, and has the entrance to M&S on it (which is one of the main reasons it’s so busy).

Back of M&S, from Newgate Market

Whereas Newgate has the back of M&S in it, which is a different thing entirely. As revealed clearly here now the market stalls have been cleared for the refurbishment work. Here in Newgate Market M&S is mainly a big bulky thing blocking out the light.

The area occupied by Newgate Market is also of course a space cleared of buildings. Narrow medieval streets ran through here too, and we’re left with the stubby stumps of them. Around its periphery Jubbergate, Little Shambles, Silver Street. I don’t recall knowing the names of Silver Street or Jubbergate until relatively recently — I would have said ‘that bit of road leading to the market’. I also don’t recall locals referring to it as ‘Newgate Market’, but just ‘the market’.

It doesn’t work that well, as a market place. The M&S end in particular has been for a long time a bit dismal and gloomy, like the market kind of tapers off not quite knowing what to do with itself.

The revamp is supposed to change all that. Here’s a drawing of part of it.

The new-look Newgate. (c) Bauman Lyons

This layout does make far more sense, as it has a central axis pointing the opposite way from before. Before you’d tend to wander through on what used to be Little Shambles, off Shambles, round the buildings in the middle. On this drawing we’re standing at the end of the market with M&S on our left and Shambles off to the right, looking towards Newgate. The building at the end is on the corner of Newgate and Patrick Pool.

Newgate Market, partly cleared, 13 July 2014

Here’s what it looked like a few weeks back from a similar place, when they’d started to clear this end. I wandered down to get a sense of the open space and to see if any interesting new views presented themselves.

And they did. Rather pleasing, this view.

Shame really that it can’t stay as open uncluttered space, with nicer paving or perhaps even grass here in the foreground, giving us this handsome and picturesque scene of the Minster and St Sampson’s church over an interesting cluster of buildings.

View of part-cleared Newgate Market, 13 July 2014

While the work is taking place the market has gone back to its earlier home, in Parliament Street. Where it’s clear to everyone that it benefits from more passing trade than it gets normally, in Newgate. Many people — the majority perhaps — feel that the Newgate market place should be where visiting markets are placed, and that Parliament Street should be again the permanent home of ‘our market’.

There is a feeling, I think, that the prime location of Parliament Street being given to the visiting markets and events is a clear symbol of a general impression many residents and long-established businesses have, that residents’ needs and views are pushed onto the sidelines, out of the way, while things seen as more appealing to visitors get into the spotlight, get the prime spot. I get the impression, from what I’ve heard and read, that it’s frustrating for the market stallholders to see visiting markets in Parliament St so often, while they’re stuck out of the way in Newgate.

I wonder if anyone’s doing a proper study of the stallholders’ takings, over this period when they’re temporarily allowed back into Parliament Street, compared with what they take when in Newgate. I’d be really interested to see that. If the comparison proved what I think we all know, that they make more money in Parliament St, then I don’t know how it can be justified sending them back into Newgate. Whatever they do with it to enhance it, it’s still essentially a strange little space round the back of M&S.

Not forgetting, of course, the prettier buildings opposite, the backs of the buildings making up our famous Shambles. While we await the results of this latest civic improvement scheme, I’ll leave you with an image of my favourite ‘back of the Shambles’ view, framed by the canopies of the old market stalls.

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I have to confess that I’d not really noticed the fountain wasn’t working. All it is to me is a slightly annoying thing in the way on the occasions I dash from Newgate to the bank. It’s just another of those not particularly enduring structures we spent money on in the late 20th century. I wouldn’t have mentioned this fountain at all, ever, if it hadn’t been for a very funny piece by Chris Titley, which suggests various creative uses for the structure now it is no longer spouting water.

It inspired an idea to add to the mix, regarding what we can do with the redundant non-operational fountain structure …

Fountain/mountain of fruit and veg

… A stall for selling fruit and veg. A fruit and veg mountain on the fountain.

This design makes good use of the slight incline on the existing structure, and in the vision of a ‘fruit and veg mountain’ it fully utilises the existing railing structure, which stops the mounded peaches rolling off. (Not part of the original vision for the fountain: photo. Not sure why or when it was added, but it looks silly, doesn’t it.)

Parliament Street was the home of the market stalls for decades, and the majority think the market should never have left here to move around the corner into Newgate. This central York street is often occupied now by visiting markets and used for special events, but the traditional York market is allowed to use the space on Mondays. After which it has to go back round the corner.

As previously mentioned, it seems likely that a(nother) Sainsbury’s Local is to occupy the ground floor of the old White Swan hotel building, not far away, on Piccadilly, at the end of Parliament Street. This hasn’t been universally welcomed, for obvious reasons, particularly by market traders. If they were given a more prominent position where the shoppers rushing to Sainsbury’s had a chance to see them then that might help. This fruit and veg mountain fountain could serve as a reminder that fruit and veg doesn’t have to come sitting on a plastic tray or in a plastic bag, brought in from miles and miles away. Perhaps to make it more appealing to non-locals (and we all realise that the ‘visitor offer’ is of utmost importance) someone in a historical costume could juggle peaches, discuss the history of this street, or perhaps ponder why its paving is so strangely wonky. I’m planning to do two of those things. More later.

Credits

Fountain photo: David Smith. Inspiration: yorkmix.com on the Parliament St fountain, fruit and veg photos: @sheilas321veg.

Elsewhere on the web

Stallholders hail return of city centre market trading (on Mondays) (from The Press)
Market trader Valerie Mitchell quits stall after 45 years (The Press)

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