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	<title>Comments on: Ordnance Lane: history, demolition, thoughts</title>
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	<link>http://yorkstories.co.uk/ordnance-lane-demolitions-planning-application-thoughts/</link>
	<description>A resident&#039;s record of York and its changes</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Wed, 05 Mar 2025 17:45:53 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: Mrs E Lillford</title>
		<link>http://yorkstories.co.uk/ordnance-lane-demolitions-planning-application-thoughts/#comment-657759</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Mrs E Lillford]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 14 Jun 2016 19:30:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://yorkstories.co.uk/?p=11233#comment-657759</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I &#039;discovered&#039; the information on the proposed Ordnance Lane site by accident, whilst looking for historical information on Wenlock Terrace in connection with the proposed erection of a 7 unit, 3 storey building, with roof garden, in the yard of 14 + 15 Wenlock Terrace - a proposal which has also apparently been &#039;under the wire&#039;. 
Although Guy Hanson, Design &amp; Sustainability Manager has raised several points of concern, the proposal seems to be proceeding, with a survey on local traffic and parking being initiated within the near future.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I &#8216;discovered&#8217; the information on the proposed Ordnance Lane site by accident, whilst looking for historical information on Wenlock Terrace in connection with the proposed erection of a 7 unit, 3 storey building, with roof garden, in the yard of 14 + 15 Wenlock Terrace &#8211; a proposal which has also apparently been &#8216;under the wire&#8217;.<br />
Although Guy Hanson, Design &amp; Sustainability Manager has raised several points of concern, the proposal seems to be proceeding, with a survey on local traffic and parking being initiated within the near future.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Chris Rainger</title>
		<link>http://yorkstories.co.uk/ordnance-lane-demolitions-planning-application-thoughts/#comment-657591</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Chris Rainger]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 08 Jun 2016 11:51:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://yorkstories.co.uk/?p=11233#comment-657591</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Lisa
Thanks for your thorough article about this proposal.  It was very useful in preparing this (draft) response to the planning application by Fishergate, Fulford &amp; Heslington Local History Society, a copy of which is included below.

Fishergate, Fulford and Heslington Local History Society (FFH) object to the proposed demolition of the former military hospital staff accommodation, on the grounds that insufficient consideration has been given to the Conservation Area and the detrimental effect on that Area of the loss of these houses and their intended replacement with a large block of overbearing and inappropriately designed buildings.
We summarise our objection as follows:
1.	The site is partly within and immediately adjacent to the Fulford Road Conservation Area, key features of which are the remaining military buildings and their environs.
2.	Some of the buildings, particularly the western terrace, are of an interesting and unique design and their demolition would be a significant loss.
3.	The setting of this group of buildings is parallel to those of Wenlock Terrace and forms an interesting grouping which reflects the long association with the military history of York.
4.	The principal reason for the proposed demolition is that the buildings are said to be unsuitable for the use which CYC currently make of them.  This is an insufficient reason to justify the loss of the only remaining domestic buildings associated with the former military hospital and ordnance depot.
5.	It will set an extremely bad precedent if CYC demolished historic buildings within and adjacent to a conservation area, and will encourage developers to believe that the authority does not value the protection which comes with such status.
6.	We urge CYC to find an alternative site for the new housing accommodation.
7.	We call for CYC to promote a scheme for the sympathetic renovation and enhancement of these historically significant and architecturally interesting buildings.
Expanding on these key points:
Fulford Road Conservation Area
Section 69 of the Planning (Listed Buildings and Historic Areas) Act 1990 requires local planning authorities to designate as conservation areas any ‘areas of special architectural or historic interest the character or appearance of which it is desirable to preserve or enhance’.
The same Act requires that a local authority, in exercising its planning powers, must pay special attention to the desirability of preserving or enhancing the character or appearance of a conservation area (Section 72 of the Act).
The following extracts from the 2009 Conservation Area Appraisal describe the importance of the Ordnance Lane area thus: -
“This section of the Conservation Area is of considerable architectural and social interest, with high military associations.”
“Just before the new office development Ordnance Lane runs off to the west, originally leading to the Royal Army Ordnance Depot established behind the hospital in 1890.  The Lane itself is utilitarian but it includes an interesting and robust terrace of flats and maisonettes built in 1903 for married hospital staff, and a later 1920’s house (No 9) presumably for higher ranking personnel.”
“The buildings…. have some quality and architectural interest, as well as some social interest. The area would not justify conservation area status in isolation but in association with the Wenlock Terrace housing it is considered to add further interest and diversity, and to justify inclusion.”
The Conservation Area Appraisal proposed that the whole of Ordnance Lane should be included in the expansion of the Conservation Area, and although only the roadside strip was eventually added, the appraisal’s description of its significance remains undiminished.
A report on the proposal by the City Archaeologist was not part of the decision making process until very recently.  Issued on 31st May 2016, it states that the “residential buildings have a significant association with the military presence in the area.”  
The military hospital has already been demolished, so these former homes for its staff are the last physical memory of an important element in York’s association with the large military establishment in the Fulford Road area.
Consultation
The community engagement process was inadequate and ineffective and cannot be considered to have met CYC’s obligations.  Attendance at the public meeting was ridiculously small, which reflects the lack of engagement with the local community, particularly groups such as FFH, which may be expected to have views on such a development but were not invited.  A simple test of local interest could have been made by googling ‘York Military Hospital’ which will bring up a list headed by Fishergate, Fulford and Heslington Local History Society.
Design and Location
The proposed new buildings are of an inappropriate design for the Conservation Area, and will have an overbearing effect on the street-scape and adjacent tall Victorian buildings in Fulford Road and Wenlock Terrace.  
Currently, Ordnance Lane appears very unobtrusive from Fulford Road, with only the utilitarian side elevation of the first red brick house being readily visible.  This is in dramatic contrast to the proposed development, which will have a starkly modern looking slab-faced building standing three storeys high only 5m from the boundary wall.
The materials and colours proposed by the designers are of a striking character which is perhaps suitable for a highly urban city Landscape, such as some parts of Sheffield or Leeds, but are grossly inappropriate for this setting.
The search for alternative locations has not been very wide ranging and it is unconvincing that no other sites are available.
In summary, we call on the CYC to;
a) respect the historical importance to the City of these remaining military buildings and seek a partner to refurbish them
b) find a new location more suited and sympathetic to the proposed design for the new and important social housing development
Christopher Rainger, Chairman of Fishergate, Fulford and Heslington Local History Society]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Lisa<br />
Thanks for your thorough article about this proposal.  It was very useful in preparing this (draft) response to the planning application by Fishergate, Fulford &amp; Heslington Local History Society, a copy of which is included below.</p>
<p>Fishergate, Fulford and Heslington Local History Society (FFH) object to the proposed demolition of the former military hospital staff accommodation, on the grounds that insufficient consideration has been given to the Conservation Area and the detrimental effect on that Area of the loss of these houses and their intended replacement with a large block of overbearing and inappropriately designed buildings.<br />
We summarise our objection as follows:<br />
1.	The site is partly within and immediately adjacent to the Fulford Road Conservation Area, key features of which are the remaining military buildings and their environs.<br />
2.	Some of the buildings, particularly the western terrace, are of an interesting and unique design and their demolition would be a significant loss.<br />
3.	The setting of this group of buildings is parallel to those of Wenlock Terrace and forms an interesting grouping which reflects the long association with the military history of York.<br />
4.	The principal reason for the proposed demolition is that the buildings are said to be unsuitable for the use which CYC currently make of them.  This is an insufficient reason to justify the loss of the only remaining domestic buildings associated with the former military hospital and ordnance depot.<br />
5.	It will set an extremely bad precedent if CYC demolished historic buildings within and adjacent to a conservation area, and will encourage developers to believe that the authority does not value the protection which comes with such status.<br />
6.	We urge CYC to find an alternative site for the new housing accommodation.<br />
7.	We call for CYC to promote a scheme for the sympathetic renovation and enhancement of these historically significant and architecturally interesting buildings.<br />
Expanding on these key points:<br />
Fulford Road Conservation Area<br />
Section 69 of the Planning (Listed Buildings and Historic Areas) Act 1990 requires local planning authorities to designate as conservation areas any ‘areas of special architectural or historic interest the character or appearance of which it is desirable to preserve or enhance’.<br />
The same Act requires that a local authority, in exercising its planning powers, must pay special attention to the desirability of preserving or enhancing the character or appearance of a conservation area (Section 72 of the Act).<br />
The following extracts from the 2009 Conservation Area Appraisal describe the importance of the Ordnance Lane area thus: &#8211;<br />
“This section of the Conservation Area is of considerable architectural and social interest, with high military associations.”<br />
“Just before the new office development Ordnance Lane runs off to the west, originally leading to the Royal Army Ordnance Depot established behind the hospital in 1890.  The Lane itself is utilitarian but it includes an interesting and robust terrace of flats and maisonettes built in 1903 for married hospital staff, and a later 1920’s house (No 9) presumably for higher ranking personnel.”<br />
“The buildings…. have some quality and architectural interest, as well as some social interest. The area would not justify conservation area status in isolation but in association with the Wenlock Terrace housing it is considered to add further interest and diversity, and to justify inclusion.”<br />
The Conservation Area Appraisal proposed that the whole of Ordnance Lane should be included in the expansion of the Conservation Area, and although only the roadside strip was eventually added, the appraisal’s description of its significance remains undiminished.<br />
A report on the proposal by the City Archaeologist was not part of the decision making process until very recently.  Issued on 31st May 2016, it states that the “residential buildings have a significant association with the military presence in the area.”<br />
The military hospital has already been demolished, so these former homes for its staff are the last physical memory of an important element in York’s association with the large military establishment in the Fulford Road area.<br />
Consultation<br />
The community engagement process was inadequate and ineffective and cannot be considered to have met CYC’s obligations.  Attendance at the public meeting was ridiculously small, which reflects the lack of engagement with the local community, particularly groups such as FFH, which may be expected to have views on such a development but were not invited.  A simple test of local interest could have been made by googling ‘York Military Hospital’ which will bring up a list headed by Fishergate, Fulford and Heslington Local History Society.<br />
Design and Location<br />
The proposed new buildings are of an inappropriate design for the Conservation Area, and will have an overbearing effect on the street-scape and adjacent tall Victorian buildings in Fulford Road and Wenlock Terrace.<br />
Currently, Ordnance Lane appears very unobtrusive from Fulford Road, with only the utilitarian side elevation of the first red brick house being readily visible.  This is in dramatic contrast to the proposed development, which will have a starkly modern looking slab-faced building standing three storeys high only 5m from the boundary wall.<br />
The materials and colours proposed by the designers are of a striking character which is perhaps suitable for a highly urban city Landscape, such as some parts of Sheffield or Leeds, but are grossly inappropriate for this setting.<br />
The search for alternative locations has not been very wide ranging and it is unconvincing that no other sites are available.<br />
In summary, we call on the CYC to;<br />
a) respect the historical importance to the City of these remaining military buildings and seek a partner to refurbish them<br />
b) find a new location more suited and sympathetic to the proposed design for the new and important social housing development<br />
Christopher Rainger, Chairman of Fishergate, Fulford and Heslington Local History Society</p>
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		<title>By: Charly Hamlyn</title>
		<link>http://yorkstories.co.uk/ordnance-lane-demolitions-planning-application-thoughts/#comment-657329</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Charly Hamlyn]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 31 May 2016 12:50:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://yorkstories.co.uk/?p=11233#comment-657329</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[The Statement of Community Engagement from the planning website is interesting:

&quot;
Ordnance Lane redevelopment
Statement of Community Engagement
A public information event was held on Tuesday 9th February 2016 between 4pm and 7pm at
Fishergate Primary School to showcase the proposals and answer any questions regarding the
development. Invitations were sent to residents and businesses in the vicinity of the site, with
contact details of council officers to discuss the scheme if someone could not attend. Officers from
the council’s Housing Development Team, the management team of the hostel accommodation, and
Bay Construct were in attendance.
The event was attended by three members of the public and one of the local ward Councillors. The
residents who attended were overwhelmingly in favour of the design of the scheme and supportive
of the proposed use.
Should the planning application be successful then a further public information event would be held
prior to start on site to introduce the contractor and provide information and contacts for the build
period.
Andy Kerr
Housing Strategy Manager
City of York Council
&quot;

Only THREE members of the public and only one meeting, I would think the Council should be required to establish a higher level of &#039;engagement&#039;! 
https://planningaccess.york.gov.uk/online-applications/files/DC0B37744D074E85A0C81FBBEB3FE65A/pdf/16_00871_FULM-STATEMENT_OF_COMMUNITY_ENGAGEMENT-1738881.pdf]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The Statement of Community Engagement from the planning website is interesting:</p>
<p>&#8221;<br />
Ordnance Lane redevelopment<br />
Statement of Community Engagement<br />
A public information event was held on Tuesday 9th February 2016 between 4pm and 7pm at<br />
Fishergate Primary School to showcase the proposals and answer any questions regarding the<br />
development. Invitations were sent to residents and businesses in the vicinity of the site, with<br />
contact details of council officers to discuss the scheme if someone could not attend. Officers from<br />
the council’s Housing Development Team, the management team of the hostel accommodation, and<br />
Bay Construct were in attendance.<br />
The event was attended by three members of the public and one of the local ward Councillors. The<br />
residents who attended were overwhelmingly in favour of the design of the scheme and supportive<br />
of the proposed use.<br />
Should the planning application be successful then a further public information event would be held<br />
prior to start on site to introduce the contractor and provide information and contacts for the build<br />
period.<br />
Andy Kerr<br />
Housing Strategy Manager<br />
City of York Council<br />
&#8221;</p>
<p>Only THREE members of the public and only one meeting, I would think the Council should be required to establish a higher level of &#8216;engagement&#8217;!<br />
<a href="https://planningaccess.york.gov.uk/online-applications/files/DC0B37744D074E85A0C81FBBEB3FE65A/pdf/16_00871_FULM-STATEMENT_OF_COMMUNITY_ENGAGEMENT-1738881.pdf" rel="nofollow">https://planningaccess.york.gov.uk/online-applications/files/DC0B37744D074E85A0C81FBBEB3FE65A/pdf/16_00871_FULM-STATEMENT_OF_COMMUNITY_ENGAGEMENT-1738881.pdf</a></p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Ralph</title>
		<link>http://yorkstories.co.uk/ordnance-lane-demolitions-planning-application-thoughts/#comment-657321</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Ralph]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 31 May 2016 06:37:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://yorkstories.co.uk/?p=11233#comment-657321</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Thanks for putting this page together, and for writing about the proposals in such an infotmed and balanced way. I live near this site and I must admit the redevelopment was certainly &quot;under the radar&quot; for me. I remember hearing several years ago about the site being possibly sold off, or redeveloped, but nothing came of it. I knew nothing about the consultation meeting or I certainly would have gone, and this latest set of proposals came out of nowhere as far as I&#039;m concerned. Locals I&#039;ve spoken to say the same. People living in Wenlock Terrace are certainly going to suffer from what&#039;s proposed and we would surely have had some objections from there if they had known what was planned? Anyway, if the plan was to get this one through on the quiet I very much hope that has now been thwarted. I will certainly be objecting.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for putting this page together, and for writing about the proposals in such an infotmed and balanced way. I live near this site and I must admit the redevelopment was certainly &#8220;under the radar&#8221; for me. I remember hearing several years ago about the site being possibly sold off, or redeveloped, but nothing came of it. I knew nothing about the consultation meeting or I certainly would have gone, and this latest set of proposals came out of nowhere as far as I&#8217;m concerned. Locals I&#8217;ve spoken to say the same. People living in Wenlock Terrace are certainly going to suffer from what&#8217;s proposed and we would surely have had some objections from there if they had known what was planned? Anyway, if the plan was to get this one through on the quiet I very much hope that has now been thwarted. I will certainly be objecting.</p>
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		<title>By: Lisa @YorkStories</title>
		<link>http://yorkstories.co.uk/ordnance-lane-demolitions-planning-application-thoughts/#comment-657310</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Lisa @YorkStories]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 30 May 2016 21:46:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://yorkstories.co.uk/?p=11233#comment-657310</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Thanks for your comments. There has been a lot of interest on  social media about this, and everyone seems quite shocked about it. What baffles me a bit is how it was apparently so under the radar before. I know I&#039;m guilty of hearing mentions of it but being distracted by other local happenings at the time, and hadn&#039;t been to see the buildings in question until about a month ago. But the local councillors (Andy D&#039;Agorne and Dave Taylor) knew about them, and they&#039;re mentioned in the Fulford Road Conservation Area Appraisal which I&#039;ve just read today (&lt;a href=&quot;https://www.york.gov.uk/downloads/file/3394/fulfordroadcaapdf&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;PDF on this link&lt;/a&gt;). Although they weren&#039;t included within that boundary, there&#039;s a paragraph about them (numbered 6.23 in that linked document above):

&quot;Just before the new office development
Ordnance Lane runs off to the west,
originally leading to the Royal Army
Ordnance Depot established behind the
hospital in 1890. The Lane itself is
utilitarian but it includes an interesting
and robust terrace of flats and
maisonettes built in 1903 for married
hospital staff, and a later 1920’s house
(No 9) presumably for higher ranking
personnel&quot;

Demolishing them does seem pretty shocking, particularly when mid-20th century office blocks are being kept and refurbished. But it&#039;s all about what&#039;s seen as economically viable, of course.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for your comments. There has been a lot of interest on  social media about this, and everyone seems quite shocked about it. What baffles me a bit is how it was apparently so under the radar before. I know I&#8217;m guilty of hearing mentions of it but being distracted by other local happenings at the time, and hadn&#8217;t been to see the buildings in question until about a month ago. But the local councillors (Andy D&#8217;Agorne and Dave Taylor) knew about them, and they&#8217;re mentioned in the Fulford Road Conservation Area Appraisal which I&#8217;ve just read today (<a href="https://www.york.gov.uk/downloads/file/3394/fulfordroadcaapdf" rel="nofollow">PDF on this link</a>). Although they weren&#8217;t included within that boundary, there&#8217;s a paragraph about them (numbered 6.23 in that linked document above):</p>
<p>&#8220;Just before the new office development<br />
Ordnance Lane runs off to the west,<br />
originally leading to the Royal Army<br />
Ordnance Depot established behind the<br />
hospital in 1890. The Lane itself is<br />
utilitarian but it includes an interesting<br />
and robust terrace of flats and<br />
maisonettes built in 1903 for married<br />
hospital staff, and a later 1920’s house<br />
(No 9) presumably for higher ranking<br />
personnel&#8221;</p>
<p>Demolishing them does seem pretty shocking, particularly when mid-20th century office blocks are being kept and refurbished. But it&#8217;s all about what&#8217;s seen as economically viable, of course.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: magge caudwell</title>
		<link>http://yorkstories.co.uk/ordnance-lane-demolitions-planning-application-thoughts/#comment-657306</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[magge caudwell]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 30 May 2016 17:39:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://yorkstories.co.uk/?p=11233#comment-657306</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[No to demolition.take the long term view instead,get a good architect to redesign the inside.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>No to demolition.take the long term view instead,get a good architect to redesign the inside.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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